I couldn't find many reviews of such knives so i tried making one myself. You can see more information and pictures in the links below.
Here are the LINKS of where i've ordered them, if youre interested:
iTamae / Vista:
The knife that has arrived two weeks after the review: (Haoye)
- Has a longer handle, is relatively thin and light, sticks a lot to big potatoes as well. I actually find it the most comfortable out of the four. (Balance, grip, grind and rounding of edges)
- It came with a micro chipped blade though (so small, people would not notice) and was as sharp as the other knives, not the sharpest
You can probably google "Metro forged proffesional" for the big knife and its smaller versions.
Try googling "crap knife" for the other two?
AFTER SHARPENING and stropping:
(These results are purely subjective and might vary due to my sharpening not being always the same,. I have used cheap water stones and then stropped on leather with diamond paste of various gritts until i had a clean mirror finish)
Is noticably the hardest/most abbrassion resistant, takes an excellent edge. I made this one the sharpest of them all. It cuts through paper with no resistence and shaves mid-air cutting some hairs lengthwise.
Vista: Shaves hair just fine but is no crazy sharpness. It cuts smoothly through paper with its own weight (which is not bad being the thinnest knife in the race). Not as sharp as the Xituo though.
The fourth knife (Haoye): Comparable with Vista, shaves better but offers more resistence when cutting through paper (Not sure why but it does feel sharper nevertheless)
Sunlong: Noticably softest of those four.
As i tried to sharpen all four knives in a hurry, i might have not created a burr and failed to sharpen it. I will retry and edit this.
EDIT: This time i paid attention while sharpening and succeeded in creating a very, very sharp edge easily equal to the Xituo. That means its just a matter of sharpening skill with all of the knives.
I noticed that i couldnt get as a good polish as i have hoped for on this knife and when i looked closely, i could see why.
One can see the harder steel at the very edge (a thin layer in the middle) became shiny, while the softer outer steel is matt. That might or might not be the reason this knife feels softer during sharpening. As the "hamon" of this knife is not completely straight and is very close to the edge i had a feeling that i sharpened it wrong at some places, but its only an optical illusion.
One problem i did find with this knife though, the handle really doesnt like water and in just the few rinsing cycles ive made trying to clean it from sharpening and vegetables, the wood seems to have somehow dried and the metal pomel and hilt edges are very pronounced now, impossible to ignore.
I do recommend getting synthetic handles, or at least to treat your wooden handles prior to use, even if they look treated (oiling it might be a big help)
Hi, if you watched the video... I really cant tell. The differences in handle material and geometry are more noticable. All the differences are minimal and i havent found any of the knives to be getting exceptionally dull. Please read the description on my opinion after sharpening them.
11:37 This is not "an european edge" . It's an industrial, consumer friendly tough edge so the average joe doesn't need to care for it much and doesn't destroy it easily. Let's not spread more "omg asian/japanese superior katana/knives" BS please. Proper professional "european" knives don't have a thick V edge like this . Look at an opinel: it has more of this type of geometry.
Also, you should have thrown a 500$ piece in there to see if there's actually any difference
Thanks for the info, I would buy them only as gift. Now on Aliexpress for 26 euro. There is more to knive than its sharpness out of the box. Quality of steel and manufacturing treatment is as important. I bought santoku knife in Kyoto from a local manufacturer. Hand made with beautiful wood, damascus finish with 12 layers and yeah it was 700 Euro per piece. These days German knives are fantastic with their finish and hardness.
yes it is one of the hardest steals made, 120 layers (not 12) made by a smith master. Really loved the katanas in his shop but the price was 120 0000 Yen about 12 000 euro the cheapest one. I do not know what is the steel hardness of my knife, back then we did not have iPhones or google translate.
You're holding it wrong.
Seriously, your index finger should be on suicide watch. Either keep it on the handle or do a proper pinch grip (not the pinch grip you are using at 10:27 where the index finger almost touches the side of the edge). Also, consider getting a knife with a bolster if you are concerned about the safety of your fingers. The half high bolster on the Wüsthof Classic Ikon does not prevent sharpening the heel, BTW.
Also, regarding the European blade shape, that's optimized for tap, rock and cross chopping. See this great video:
With those two nits out of the way, let me say: *Great content, many thanks!*
Especially since many reviewers don't point out the difference between initial sharpness and edge retention.
I had to cut a bucket of garlic to slices a week ago, that was a really good practise. Though the garlic really started to burn my leading finger a lot and i had to wash the knife every now and then and even oil it as the garlic sticked. After two hours of cutting like that i already felt an improvement. I need more food :)
Thanks! Good point, i haven't realized how i was holding the knife there, i aimed to give a clear view and show how lightly i was holding the knife as it falls through on its own, which would be harder with the pinch grip.
Also i cant cut at all obviously.
The metro knife kind of has a half bolster. For me knives with bolsters just dont feel right.
Ill check the link, i need to learn to cut better.
Hello. Which of these 2 do you think is better? https://es.aliexpress.com/store/product/XINZUO-7-inch-Japanese-chef-knife-Damascus-steel-kitchen-knife-professional-santoku-knife-for-Hotel-or/1490507_32793080369.html?spm=a219c.search0104.3.158.d22970a9bpvuOB&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0%2Csearchweb201602_1_10152_10151_10065_10344_10068_10342_10547_10343_10340_10548_10341_10084_10083_10618_10630_10307_10301_10303_5711211_10313_10059_10184_5722311_10534_100031_10629_10103_10626_10625_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620_10142%2Csearchweb201603_25%2CppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=798cc587-7795-44fd-8d11-1b316cdd5834-23&algo_pvid=798cc587-7795-44fd-8d11-1b316cdd5834&priceBeautifyAB=0
I cant even tell you which one is better with the knives in the video, and i could touch those :)From my experience i would go with a G10 handle rather than wood, it is far more stable with water.As far as blade steel, heat treat and quality there is no way to know. Go with the one that you like better. I am sure you will be happy with each and if there were differences, they would be very minor.
Liked your video. Looks like it took a lot of work to make. I notice that the Xituo and the Sunlong are apparently no longer available. The Chinese knife market is evidently a dynamic one.
I found the edge retention results of your test to be the most revealing. Makes clear that the difference in expensive Japanese knives vs. cheap Chinese ones is retention, not sharpness. Still, for those of us not chopping onions by the bushel, the cheaper knife is probably fine. I went ahead and ordered a Sunnecko 7" santoku from aliexpress. Assuming that knife performs comparably to your three samples, I think I will be satisfied.
Thats a nice rule to have! Yeah, i was surprised how quickly the wood started to change its dimensions. Wood as a handle material for something that is often rinsed with water is generally not a good idea if one doesnt know how to treat the wood. Even if one does, there are much better materials out there like G10 or Micarta for creating handles. If i had the choice, i would only go for wood if looks or weight were important. There are stabilized woods that shouldn't have this problem though, i haven't had those in my hands yet so i can't tell.Youre welcome!
Yes, the first leap in quality usually offers more bang for the buck. For most of us the limiting factor in our results is a deficiency in skill rather than equipment. So, it behooves us to focus on developing our skills, whether sharpening or cooking.
My general rule in life is to avoid faith-based purchasing, i.e. not to pay for a difference that I cannot detect. This approach mitigates against ever buying a diamond, for example. When, if ever, my skills progress to the point that the limitations of the Chinese knife become unbearable I will spring for a Shun or something.
Your tip about going for a synthetic handle on a Chinese knife was alone worth the price of admission. Thanks again.
Ah! Youre right, the links aren't working anymore! But i tried and you can still find the exact same knifes offered by other sellers if you look for them.Yes as far as sharpness goes, these are out of the box not bad and if you sharpen them yourself you can get anything sharp. The difference indeed is in the edge retention.IMO there are three categories of knives that give you a noticable upgrade:1) basic very cheap knives - those are not only made of inferior steels and bad heat treatment but often have an edge geometry that is unsuitable for their application (like a hollow grind on a chef knife) so even if you sharpen them, they will cut bad.2) middle class with a good grind - thats what these are, better heat treatment and steel and much more important better geometry makes for a better experience even if its not done properly.3) high end knives - The details in geometry can be slightly better, the details like polished handles so there are feelable lines between the wood and the metal can be pleasing. Heat treat and steel should be on point and give a much better edge retention.I think the step from the first to the second category is much better than the step from the second to the third category and the decision to take it is always good. You also can learn to work with and handle a different more delicate type of knife before spending too much money on an expensive one and breaking its tip the first day because you try to pry bones :)
Cool. These chinese knives have come a long way. As much as I like high carbon or damuscus knife, they are prone to rust if not used and maintained. The VG10 steel is a good balance. Thanks for the review. I bought few damuscus knives off Amazon. Dalstrong and Tuo brands are my two favorite brands so far, but they will cost you over $100 though, but will last a life time.
Yeah...with the skills you have when it comes to sharpening knives, i wouldn't worry so much about higher quality. The softer steels are very easy to sharp with a portable/mulitool knive sharpners and can easily get razor sharp with few swipes. I still use knives from dollar store to craft foam and such after i sharpen them with a Lansky PS-MED01 sharpener. I just dont have the skills yet to do so with whetstone. As for higher quality knifes, the edges last longer, but can be a pain to sharpen. Either way, technology has come a long way. $30 knives can do the job as good as its expensive counter part, but the balance and feel is a whole different topic. Unless you are a professional chef, these cheap knives would work great for everyday use. Cheers.
Dalistrong has a good reputation, there is no doubt their knives are real.Here on the other hand? Noone can assure you that these were properly heat treated and that they really use VG10. I sadly have nothing of higher quality i could compare them to.
+RobinChen I have a Wüsthof Classic Ikon 9" Chef's Knife, and I agree it is much better than the ones shown. However, even the 8" Classic (a cheaper line!) costs $130+ on US shops. (I quoted it a $80-90 in some other post but that was a mistake, this particular offer was "used, as new".)
+magicshon Maybe you could give the Shikisai Nami Gyuto a try:
This is a German shop though. They do int'l shipping, but it's expensive outside EU. Maybe you can find this knife elsewhere?
daAnder71 Well thank you grammar nazi ;) btw, I was curious and ordered a set of those "Lidl" knives, payed 50 euros for 3 knives and they are pretty much 1 to 1 the same as the "Kai shun classic" series knives. Cannot tell them apart besides the fact that they obviously didn't have a very good edge on them. Once I resharpened them one could not tell them apart from the Kai knife that costs 190 euros for one knife alone. Like literally, they have the same dimensions, the same design, the same thickness, the same blade steel the exact same handle..
So i tried lazily sharpening them on my cheap stones:
Sunlong: Definately felt the softest, though still uncomparable to standart cheap knives (i created a razor sharp edge at some spots but i was too much hurry to do it properly and pay attention to creating a burr...)
iTamae / Vista: Somewhere in the middle between the other knives.
XITUO: To my surprise this one was noticably the hardest of these, the cheap stones barely cut it. I had a similar feeling on those stones when i tried to sharpen my razor (though the razor did feel even harder than the knife)
The fourth knife: Also somewhere in the middle, possibly slightly harder than the Vista.
Now this is just a first feel as i had no time to strop the knives yet (except the sunlong which did not correct my bad sharpening job much) I cant tell whether what i feel is hardness or abrassion resistance and i have no VG10 to compare them to. I also heard that VG10 is supposed to be easy to sharpen.None of these knives were truly difficult to sharpen. I will need to strop them and see what the finished edge is like and possible re-do the sunlong.
Klidně se ptej zde,. třeba odpovědi budou zajímat i více lidí, nebo pošli PM na youtube. Na kuchyňské nože se nespecializuji, ale mám rád nože a broušení obecně. Sám vidíš, že neumím ani pořádně krájet :)
unfortunatelly I wasn't able to confirm with an actual hardness test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkcRRygE0Lw which gave a reading of 56HRC when the blade fractured - but that was done with the cutting edge hanging in the air without support underneath therefore it actually should have much more. It appeared on AliExpress about the same time when the kickstarter KNASA/HABITAT knife project was announced https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/45956812/knasa-chef-knife-inspired-by-nasa-patented-technol and yes - Liquid Metal it's real https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAQIioLteuM its a very special alloy having a structure more comparable to glass than metal
Enjoyed the comparison, after using these knives would you recommend buying one? I see that Aliexpress has a number of VG 10 Damacus steel knife sets for under $200.00. That seems rather cheap. At the same time a number of knife manufacturers Wusthof for instance has its classic line made in China. I have to assume that the Chinese are quite capable of making a decent knife as long as they are using quality and steel. What are your thoughts?
Since i still havent got around to sharpening them i cant tell you much about the quality of the materials than i have in the video already.
There is no guarantee that these knives are VG10 and i can only judge the quality of a blade when i sharpen it.
But if i consider what i can buy in the shops around here for the same price, they mostly do not state any material and if they do it is often a soft stainless steel.
The chinese are very capable, i believe they can make quality knives. They can also make very good copies out of the cheapest materials though.
I hope to be able to tell more about these knives when i buy new sharpening stones and sharpen them. My family does not know how to treat knives so i haven't been using them much, if at all. I gave the metro knife away to my family to use and it got pretty dull in just a week.. and got a micro chip or two.
These knives really arent suitable for people who cant take care of them, throw them in the drawer or washing machine or cut on a ceramic plate...
Was a nice review. Also I didnt think you would buy the Sunlong. And yes after sharpening them they will stay much charper. Atleast the Sunlong was sharp from start but after sharpening with high grit stone it stays sharper and longer. I did buy 2 other knifes aswell. I havent done videos of them yet cause I have some re-angle work to do on them.
First of all thumbs up for the video, any chance you can add japanese vg10 or other known knife for comparison? Then this video will be complete. BTW From my experience even cheep diamond stones are better way to go then low grit stones. It takes a fraction of the time and the effort, and creates less mess on the blade, so it is easy to concentrate on creating perfect edge all the way. 1k and 2k grit diamond stones and you will never use low grit stones again. all you need is grit 1500 and up.
Nope the knife isnt done, om trying to reangle it cause it was flat on the other side so did a test run basicly. If you want mirror edge only way to get that is with a leather strop. But personally I dont need to be that fancy so Im fine with stones only, why I got the 10k stone in the first place.
Yeah shiny edges are one of the hardest things to take a good Picture of. Yours doesnt look completely polished but still much better than mine. Its hard to tell since i dont know what it should be reflecting but it looks a little better than my 6000 :)
FAKings casting: Lecciones para convertir a una muñeca de cristal en una maquina del sexo.
Vemos entrar a Angelina por la puerta y al verla tan frágil y tierna, algo nos hace pensar que lo mejor sera no aprovecharse mucho de esta chica e incluso abortar la situación. Mas adelante, y a medida que avanza la entrevista, nos damos cuenta que Angelina sabe a lo que viene y viene a lo que viene.
Casa, comida y sexo. Katy, la “Aquarius” de los sin papeles en Madrid.
Calurosa mañana de finales de Mayo, David y Luciano se plantean la posibilidad de cazar a una chica con la escusa de que Luciano es un chico argentino recién llegado a España , sin papeles, sin casa, sin dinero para comer y que la única solución rápida que tiene es participar en un casting porno por el que le pagaran . Pero necesita una chica que grabe con él y llevarla a los estudios de FAKings donde también le pagaran 200€ por hacer un casting porno. Hasta aquí, nada que no hayamos hecho antes y, aunque costandonos, no nos haya salido mal. Pero este caso es diferente, peculiar, ya que Katy empatiza con la situación de Luciano y le invita a su casa a pasar unos días mientras encuentra "algo".
Abortamos la idea de ir al estudio y ofrecemos a Luciano esconder unas cámaras en su mochila para grabar lo que pueda suceder en la habitación de Katy . La solidaridad de Katy no conoce fronteras y al poco de llegar a su casa los dos ya se están dando el primer lote. Se nota que esta chica estaba loca por pillar una buena polla , o que sabe alimentar muy bien a los necesitados ;)
A mi novia Sara le encanta como la follo, siempre consigo que se corra como una cerda. Hoy os regalamos un SQUIRTING.
Son Sara Queen y su novio Silver , ella tiene 32 años que la convierten en una madurita de lo mas interesante , es mas, si acostumbras a ir por locales de intercambio de Galicia, es posible que te los encuentres y podáis disfrutar de sexo con ellos. Pero ahora llegan a FAKings , desean vivir la aventura de grabar una película porno y, como no, ganarse un buen dinero. No podemos negar que Silver sabe como tratar a su novia , conoce cada uno de los rincones de su cuerpo y siempre consigue que se corra varias veces , incluso tiene el don de saber tocar su coño hasta conseguir un SQUIRTING de esos que solo los entendidos pueden regalarnos. De ella no podemos decir menos, todo un cuerpazo, similar al de una teen de 20 añitos , y un vicio que nos hace pensar que Silver terminara consumido en breve. Bienvenidos al porno chicos!